Politics, politics and more politics in Open Forum

EDITOR’S NOTE: Letters will be accepted for the Open Forum for publication in the next available issue after receipt. Letters may be sent to Forest Lake Times, 880 SW 15th St., Forest Lake, or by e-mail to editor.forestlaketimes@ecm-inc.com. Letters should not exceed 250 words and must be signed with the writer’s name, address and telephone number. Deadline is noon Monday. The newspaper reserves the right to edit letters and assure that rules of libel and good taste are not violated.

Doyle’s Wild Imagination

It was ironic that Richard Doyle’s August 23 letter was titled “Price of Ignorance,” as his diatribe was full of that which his letter lamented.

I’m a proud supporter of Obamacare for many reasons, not the least of which is that more than 3 million people (including myself) are now covered when they otherwise wouldn’t be. The poor, the perpetually ill, the unemployed, and the average taxpayer have all reaped the benefits of this program through expanded Medicaid and reduced basic health care, tests and medicine.

Following his attack of Obamacare, Mr. Doyle then expressed conspiracy-theory claims of felon voting. Mr. Doyle presented no actual evidence. Even Norm Coleman’s own lawyer said in court there was no fraud in the election. In a Star Tribune story about the numbers Mr. Doyle states as fact, Ramsey County prosecutor Phil Carruthers said “Overwhelmingly, their statistics were not accurate.”

To use imaginary facts to claim an ID requirement is necessary is disingenuous. Minnesota’s system is one of the least flawed in the country, evidenced by two recounts in the past two elections that have reinforced the legitimacy and professionalism of those running our elections.

Worse yet, Mr. Doyle openly supported a litmus test for voting, reminiscent of a time when women and people of color were not allowed to vote because they were viewed as less “intellectual.”

Unlike Mr. Doyle and GOP leadership, I submit that we should look for ways to expand voting, not restrict it.

Devon Holstad
Forest Lake

 

Hypocritical Attacks

To all those attacking Max Anderson in the comment section on the Forest Lakes Times website, at least Mr. Anderson is fairly respectful in his letters.

It is a bit hypocritical to be attacking him while none of you mention Richard Doyle’s name calling and unsubstantiated attacks on Sen. Franken and President Obama; his letter may fit in nicely on some hate group’s websites we all hear about. Where is your outrage with him or is that type of letter OK as long as you agree with him?

The ironic thing in Mr. Doyle’s letter as he attacks the Affordable Healthcare Act, is his comment “I don’t mind helping pay medical costs of the truly unfortunate, but I resent paying for those too irresponsible to buy insurance.”

The healthcare law that Mr. Doyle is complaining about mandates that everyone must buy health insurance; it seems Mr. Doyle is complaining about the very thing the healthcare law would address.

Mr. Doyle also wrote “In a perfect world there would be some minimal intellectual qualification to vote… The price of ignorance is costly, and the cost has been growing.”

While I disagree with Mr. Doyle’s concept of a “minimal intellectual qualification to vote”; it would be a great improvement to the election process and our elected officials would be more accountable to their constituents, if voters like Mr. Doyle would educate themselves on issues and legislation prior to casting their ballots.

Michael  LaFave
Forest Lake

 

Venomous Letters

I am a news junkie. I get two newspapers on a daily basis and three weekly news magazines.

In all of these publications the first thing I read is the “letters to the editor” section. In these turbulent times many people are expressing strong emotions, but the letters that appear in the Forest Lake Times stand out for their venom.

On a consistent basis there are letters that are so angry, so hateful, so arrogant, so disrespectful that I am surprised they are published. What is next? Letters written in blood?

Please remember letters like these also elicit emotions, also negative. “You reap what you sow.”

Dorothy A. Flynn
Scandia

 

Miracles Happen

To Brad Ziernicki and Kelly Wing:

As usual you have done little or no research before sticking foot in mouth. Here is the quote form the group of Bishops from Catholics United themselves.

On April 16, a group of Catholic bishops condemned “Paul Ryan’s budget proposal as failing a basic moral test in that it slashes food assistance to the poor and radically redefines safety net programs such as Medicare,”

For over 20 years Paul Ryan subscribed to Rand and her philosophies to the point of making it required reading for his staff and I quote: “The reason I got involved in public service, by and large, if I had to credit one thinker, one person, it would be Ayn Rand.”

Suddenly Mr. Ryan has second thoughts on his being a disciple of Rand when considered for the VP spot and miraculously changed his thinking. How convenient after 20 years of being a Rand zealot.

I guess miracles do happen!

Ayn Rand called Christianity  “the best kindergarten of communism possible.” An avid atheist, she saw religions’ support for the common good as “antithetical to her individualistic philosophy.”

The philosophy of greed just to make yourself happy conflicts with most religions who believe in brother helping brother and assisting the poor.

I don’t buy Ryan’s sudden conversion nor the pathetic attempt by you to spread misinformation on such an important issue. Facts are facts.

Max Anderson
Linwood

 

Winning Record

As an economist, Julie Bunn, with her extensive experience and knowledge, will be working on our behalf to move our state forward in the face of significant economic and budget challenges. It would appear that David C. Olson, president of the Minnesota Chamber of Commerce, agrees.

In a recent opinion piece (Star Tribune, August 16), Olson cites major achievements led by the Minnesota Chamber of Commerce these past years. The first is the Omnibus Transportation bill: In the 2007-8 session Julie voted along with her Democratic colleagues and six Republicans who crossed over party orders to override Pawlenty’s veto, to pass overdue funding to maintain roads and bridges, and in particular provided funding for the St Croix River bridge.

Julie Bunn chief authored the 2007, and co-authored the 2008, Minnesota healthcare reform proposals that were passed and signed into law. As Olson mentions, these were indeed significant accomplishments for the business community.

Julie is a bold, innovative and practical leader with a record of writing and supporting good-for-business legislation. Let’s make sure the wheels keep turning by voting for Julie Bunn for Senate in District 39 this November.

Mary Elise Miller
Lake Elmo

 

Invest in Future

Dear Mayor Johnson and Council:

I won’t be at your budget meeting August 30, but I would like to add my two cents worth, namely, that you don’t get enough credit for all you do! I would tell you how much I trust that each of you has our best interests in mind as you deliberate, even if I don’t always agree with all of your individual positions.

Most citizens agree you have a thankless job as you try to meet the diverse needs and wishes of a community that is, itself, diverse in many ways; and yet we are one in our pride and joy of living here.

In the 34 years I have lived in this community, I have never observed what some vocal residents call a “tax and spend” government. There has so been much bending over backwards to appease the “anti any kind of tax” group that we are always playing catch-up to bring us up to date as a 20th century city, let alone being prepared for 21st century demands.

As you deliberate how much money you need from us to do what is necessary to maintain what we have, and (forgive us of our sins………if we should) invest in the future, know that you have my support as one resident.

More importantly, I hopefully assume the vast majority of Forest Lakers are behind you, and might be embarrassed that we don’t say so often enough! We trust you will use our tax dollars wisely, and we like what you have been doing.

Patrick Kelly
Forest Lake

  • Kelly Wing

    Dear Mr. Anderson:

    At the calculated risk of me being called venomous or hateful, for our readers’ sake regrettably I have to refute you again on the bad information and insinuation that you purposefully, lazily, or just erroneously put forth about the eternal Catholic Church. I do this not out of disrespect but rather to correct you, to let the truth be made known, and to ask you to debate more accurately.

    Your claim is that when a group called “Catholics United” condemned Paul Ryan and his politics, that they somehow spoke for the Catholic Church. IT IS NOT SO. Look it up: The openly heretical “Catholics United” is NOT endorsed by the Catholic Church in any way, and thus cannot speak for the Church. For you to equate the two comes either from slander or ignorance. Your idea would be akin to saying that Max Anderson is the spokesperson for all the good people of Linwood. I invite you and anyone interested in the truth to simply look up “Catholics United.” You write so frequently that I wonder if as you pen your claims you have stopped listening to yourself and ignore facts and logic.

    And what did you mean with your preface “As usual…”? It’s the first time I ever opined on the matter! If you’re going to debate an issue, then don’t sound like some uneducated 7th grader who spouts off unsubstantiated diatribes. You have a beef? Are you an atheist like Ayn Rand? Fine! But at least debate the issue honestly and don’t defame ME as spreading misinformation when it can be proved impartially that you are in the wrong. I challenge you to prove me wrong here about “Catholics United.” If I am wrong, I will retract my errors and apologize.

    As to the germane issue regarding Paul Ryan, I would ask you to please tell us -as I alluded to in my op-ed piece- how it is that Mr. Ryan is not “allowed” to evolve in his position while Mr. Obama is celebrated on his reversal on “gay marriage.” I’m sure you’ll respond to this, but when you do, could you please make an attempt to explain Obama’s reversal?

  • max anderson

    Please quit your complaining about the reality of Paul Ryan and his cult like attachment to Ayn Rand, the facts are the facts and nothing you say or do can undo the fact that after twenty years of being a blind follower and subscriber of Ayn Rand and her principles Mr. Ryan the opportunist that he is has suddenly changed his course only after being considered for the V.P. slot in April, normal decent honest people do not evolve overnight only those that had no values or principles to began with can do that.

    Your comments about these Bishops not being part of the the Catholic Church are hogwash, these are real actual Catholic Bishops that made those comments, your name calling of branding them heretical is behavior akin to being a teenager just because they disagree with your false sense of reality and child like thinking.

    While we are on the topic of the eternal Catholic Church as you call it, please explain why the leadership to this day not is taking full responsibility for the systematic rape of young boys that they allowed to be abused for so long, they still are just making excuses and blaming the victims while protecting the hierarchy that protected the perpetrators while they abandoned the children, the eternal Catholic Church has a lot of explaining and repair work ahead of it before it can reclaim any moral ground due to the immoral acts it allowed to happen under their lack of decency and leadership to the faithful followers of the church.

    By the way there is a difference with disagreeing and defaming, I believe a person can defame themselves with anger, lashing out and name calling when they have no other means of progressing their argument, I disagree with you because it is obvious that your opinion is based on what I believe is a narrow vision of what is real and what is not and your the lack of insight and acceptance into Mr. Ryan’s past belief in the Rand cult.

    Like a child given a cookie many right wing people overlook the past of Mr. Ryan because he says what they want to hear today so they ignore his past actions as though they did not happen, Ryan is at best a liar, his boasting about finishing a marathon in under three hours later proved to a lie, his accusing and blaming the Obama administration of closing the Janesville Wisconsin Truck Plant when it really happened under President Bush another lie, his asking for funding under the affordable health care act to build a fitness center in Wisconsin is a betrayal of his so called principles after voting 31 times to abolish the health care act, Ryan is a walking talking contradiction, a liar and a smug politician that comes from a privileged background and wants to destroy social security and Medicare, defend him if you agree with his ultra right wing agenda, that is your choice..

    Have yourself a really nice day.

  • Kelly Wing

    As I asked, how do you justify Obama’s reversal?

  • Judi Bruckshen

    I can’t agree more with Ms. Flynn’s letter and comments about disrespectful and attacking letters being published (usually by the same people or person, i.e. Mr. Max Anderson) on a weekly basis. Every week it’s another rant and diatribe. As I have said before, yes, Max we get your bend. Just look at one of his last posts and I quote “your name calling of branding them heretical is akin to being a teenager just because they disagree with your false sense of reality and child like thinking”. Ending your post with “Have yourself a really nice day” at the end of his post is not only condescending, but doesn’t do anything to erase the hypocrisy Mr. Anderson routinely (i.e. every week) expouses. What’s your fixation on Paul Ryan? Have you heard Joseph Biden speak? Oh, yeah, I forgot – it’s always about your liberal and Democratic bend. While you chastise others about not being “educated” or “doing their research”, you continue to ignore the fact that your views are not the only views on the planet. If I’m wrong, feel free to run for office. Otherwise, I expect you’ll continue to be the back bench legislator (not really) who just sits back, complains and rants. Let the comedy continue.

  • Phillip Fishman

    Mr. Anderson-

    Great work on your Paul Ryan “research”. I didn’t see your similar commentary on the speeches by your President and Vice-President, so I thought I’d help.

    President Obama and Vice President Biden made statements in their convention speeches about unemployment, Medicare and other issues that fact-checkers say appear inaccurate or at least misleading.

    Among the questionable remarks were Biden’s argument that “after the worst job loss since the Great Depression we created 4.5 million private sector jobs in the past 29 months” – a frequent response by the Obama campaign when questioned about the slow economic recovery.

    The Associated Press and others point out that statement is misleading because it counts jobs from the recession’s lowest point to where employment began to grow again – excluding jobs lost earlier in Obama’s term and masking that overall unemployment has increased over that period.

    “Overall, roughly 7.5 million jobs were lost during the recession that began in December 2007 and ended officially in June 2009,” according to the wire service.

    The Associated Press also points out that Obama said in his speech that he wants to use money saved by ending the wars to build highways, schools and bridges.

    However, the wars were largely financed by borrowing “so there is no ready pile of cash to be diverted to anything else,” the wire service writes.

    The group FactCheck.org listed eight instances in which either Biden or Obama “spun” facts during their speeches Thursday night in Charlotte, N.C.

    The group point out that Obama boasted that “independent experts” found his economic plan would cut the deficit by $4 trillion over 10 years. However, one such analyst called a key element of the plan a ‘gimmick,’ the group said.

    Other examples include the president saying U.S. auto makers are back on top of the world.

    “Nope,” writes FactCheck, pointing out that General Motors has slipped back to No. 2 and is headed for third place in global sales this year behind Toyota and Volkswagen.

    The group said Biden misquoted Mitt Romney when he said the GOP presidential nominee “believes it’s OK to raise taxes on middle classes by $2,000.”

    Romney in fact promises to lower middle-class taxes, FactCheck points out.

    Just saying that if you’re going to claim to be the spokesman for “truth”, you should perhaps do your research.

    Have a really nice day.

    .

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    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/08/bend-it-like-biden-obama-fact-checkers-find-exaggerations-in-conventions/#ixzz25uQyO7dw

  • Kelly Wing

    Hello to all and to Max:

    For those following Max’s and my conversation, I hope you’ve found it easy to see that Max -in line with normal human psychology- is having a hard time being called to task on his poor logic, and that while I do need to compliment him on his passion for his beliefs and range of vocabulary, he really doesn’t present the issues fairly and ought to be called out on it. My goal is to show him and our readers that because of his poor rhetoric via other topics, Max’s assertions on Paul Ryan cannot be taken seriously.

    Here are some examples of this from our exchanges:

    Kelly said, “The openly heretical ‘Catholics United’ is NOT endorsed by the Catholic Church in any way, and thus cannot speak for the Church.”

    Max replied, “Your comments about these Bishops not being part of the Catholic Church are hogwash.”

    Obviously- not what I said. Max tries to change my words to make me sound stupid and give himself credibility. Here’s another:

    Kelly said, “As to the germane issue regarding Paul Ryan, I would ask you to please tell us [...] how it is that Mr. Ryan is not ‘allowed’ to evolve in his position…”

    Max replied, “Please quit your complaining about the reality of Paul Ryan and his cult like attachment to Ayn Rand.”

    Clearly I wasn’t complaining about anything of the sort.

    A further read shows that Max exaggerates ideas with fierce sounding, provocative adjectives and cute phrases, but the statements in which they fall are still off-topic and inaccurate! So, about Max’s tactics I suppose I could say, “Even if you wrap garbage in pretty wrapping paper, it still stinks inside.”

    But worse for Max, however, is that he lies and actually commits libel. That’s not good. It is illegal. It happens when he implies the Catholic Church committed ‘the systematic rape of young boys.’ Ouch. Low blow. That one is hard to accept. I can’t take the chance that my dismissing of his information due to rhetorical incompetence will dissuade people from believing him, so I guess I’ll have to point out: 1) “systemic” implies a hierarchical tolerance for the behavior, 2) the Church has taken responsibility for its actions via settlements, denouncements, reforms, and jail time for perpetrators, and 3) bad members exist in many institutions but that’s not to say the institution itself is bad. (For the record, any person directly involved in any of these abuses should be removed and jailed a la Jerry Sandusky and Notre Dame.)

    In arguing the Paul Ryan situation the way he does, he loses his own credibility and hurts the argument he is trying to make. My purpose for the above is not to set out demean Max but to help him see that he possesses a talent which he shouldn’t waste.

  • max anderson

    I see your recomended list of reading all comes from Fox News, now I understand you are the way you are.

    Limited input creates limited output.

    What research are you referring to? If you would like my comments on how the Obama presidency measures agianst the Bush Presidency I will be happy to oblige.

    Let us start with the two trillion dollars worth of wars Bush engaged us in for little reason other than it made his base happy and the many thousands that died or were injured for keepingb the right wing placated. Former Cheney corporate ties made billions on these wars and the middle class paid for them while the unpatriotic Mitt Romney banked his money overseas and exported jobs.

    Let us talk about TARP the financial Bailout that was put in place and enacted under Bush where the banks got bailed out and the homeowners foreclosed upon, your batting a thousand supporting all this past Republican action.

    The housing market crash the fianacial crash, two trillion dollar wars was the legacy Bush left Obama, we barley avoided another great depression and we have lemmings like your self running over the cliff with Fox News reports blaming Obama for eight straight years of borrowing money and tax breaks for the most wealthy, you must be so proud of your party.

    The GOP has changed course to mean Greedy Old People, No comprimise for you folks just your way or drive the country into collapse.

    Obama was left with a mess and it will take a while to clean up after your eight long years of Republican mis-manegment of our country under Bush.

    By the way did you ever answer my last question about whether you turned down social security and Medicare beacuse you sure seemed oppossed to them in a previous post, I know you are a man of principle and would have nothing to do with these programs you refered if I remeber correctly as socialist.

    Have a great day

  • max anderson

    Judi, Judi, Judi.

    What I notice most about those of you wanting to shout me down is that normally you don’t refute the information I post in commentary, you don’t nomally attempt to prove it wrong (I know it is because you cannot) you just want to complain about me writing it.

    On the rare occassion someone does try to refute the information I put forth it just does not seem to work out for that person because it is usually incorrect partisan mumbo jumbo feed back via information gotten from Fox News or Glenn Beck.

    Now just where does one express an opinion? Oh in the opinion column where any persons views are welcome even a person like me of whom you have such a low opinion of, but it is a failrly run column open to anyone wishing to take the time to express their opinion.

    if I were you I would get over this affliction you folks have with me it just ain’t healthy, here is a thought, try writing your own letters on what you believe about an issue or what upsets you, if I disagree I will do it in a point by point manner and I promise not to complain you got the space to express yourself because that is what freedom of speech is all about.

    May you be blessed

  • Enlightened

    Phillip Fishman last link speaks volumes

    Fox News – consistently ranked as the most biased major news network

    Mr Fishman also seems to ignore that most everything said at the Republican National Convention was fact check; the worst offender?…Paul Ryan, where it was determined most everything he said about President Obama was untrue

    About GM – is Mr. Fishman saying he would rather have General Motors out of business rather than being the #2 auto maker in the world

  • max anderson

    Kelly,

    There is plenty of proof of hierarchical tolerance for the behavior of pedophile priests.
    These men were moved around by their superiors to protect them and the church, this much has been admitted by the church and is not a lie, I would suggest those that have disagreement with the fact the upper reaches of the church had knowledge of these crimes do a little research before making a fool of one self before making accusations of lying & libel against the accusers of the crimes these perverts have admitted to.

    This is a recent direct quote just from last week from the Priest who was in charge of the spiritual Healing and counseling of wayward pedophile priests of the Catholic Church, this failed leader shows how the church still has no regard for the victims they brutalized.

    Please read

    Father Benedict Groeschel, the director of the Office for Spiritual Development for the Catholic Archdiocese of New York said the following:

    And I Quote Father Benedict Groeschel

    “People have this picture in their minds of a person planning to — a psychopath. But that’s not the case. Suppose you have a man having a nervous breakdown, and a youngster comes after him. A lot of the cases, the youngster — 14, 16, 18 — is the seducer … It’s not so hard to see — a kid looking for a father and didn’t have his own — and they won’t be planning to get into heavy-duty sex, but almost romantic, embracing, kissing, perhaps sleeping but not having intercourse or anything like that.

    It’s an understandable thing … there are the relatively rare cases where a priest is involved in a homosexual way with a minor. I think the statistic I read recently in a secular psychology review was about 2%. Would that be true of other clergy? Would it be true of doctors, lawyers, coaches?

    Here’s this poor guy — [Penn State football coach Jerry] Sandusky — it went on for years. Interesting: Why didn’t anyone say anything? Apparently, a number of kids knew about it and didn’t break the ice. Well, you know, until recent years, people did not register in their minds that it was a crime. It was a moral failure, scandalous; but they didn’t think of it in terms of legal things.”

    End of Quote

    This is your spiritual Leader not mine, I suppose you are ready for another recent article from last week in the NYT, please read on .

    Justice Ventures Up the Church Hierarchy
    Published: September 7, 2012
    New York Times

    The verdict was long overdue in the pedophile priest scandal, but a Roman Catholic bishop has become the highest-ranking church official found criminally guilty of shielding a priest known to be a threat to children. In a brief nonjury trial, Bishop Robert Finn, head of the Diocese of Kansas City-St. Joseph, Mo., was pronounced guilty on Thursday and sentenced to two years of probation for failing to alert law enforcement authorities about a predatory priest he knew was addicted to taking lewd photos of schoolgirls.

    I believe i am due for an apology about being called a liar and committing libel against the Catholic Church.

    Here is a quote from your posting about my comments on this subject.

    “Max, however, is that he lies and actually commits libel. That’s not good. It is illegal”

    I do believe I have shown myself to be wrongly accused of these accusations of committing crimes.

    What say you now?

  • Enlightened

    Database of Publicly Accused Priests in the United States

    http://bishop-accountability.org/priestdb/PriestDBbylastName-J.html

    It is a huge list

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